Two different silver & bronze 'temple' rings, Viking settlers of Scandinavia, Kingdom of the Rus or Kievan Rus, present day Ukraine, c. 800-1000 AD.

Beautiful and still wearable temple rings, one with three 'knotted' pendants or beads in cobber or bronze with some silver and another in solid silver with cuprite inlays along the edge of the the 4 projecting decorative knobs...

Large and impressive silver 'temple' ring, Viking settlers from Scandinavia (Kingdom of the Rus or Kievan Rus), present day Ukraine, c. 800-1000 AD.

Beautiful and still wearable temple ring, in solid silver, which consists of a bow ring with a loop and three elaborately made knobbed beads. These rings were worn from a headband around the temples by Viking Rus women, hence the name Temple rings.

Size: c. 4 cm. Weight: 6,55 grams.

Condition: Very Fine for type...

Large and impressive openwork silver 'temple' ring of a very elaborate type, Viking settlers from Scandinavia (Kingdom of the Rus or Kievan Rus), present day Ukraine, c. 800-1000 AD.

Beautiful and still wearable temple ring, in solid silver, which consists of a bow ring with a loop and a large elaborately carved hanger. These rings were worn from a headband around the temples by Viking Rus women, hence the name Temple rings.

Size: c. 3,5 cm...

A pair of elaborate filigree openwork earrings, Viking age, c. 800-1000 AD.

Size: c. 2,2 cm. in diameter.

Condition: Fine for type, with losses to the bows, patina.

Ex. Dutch auction sale and private collection

A non-matching pair of really large and impressive silver & bronze 'temple' rings of a knobbed type, Viking settlers of Scandinavia, Kingdom of the Rus or Kievan Rus, present day Ukraine, c. 800-1000 AD.

Beautiful and still wearable temple rings, both of a type with three large globular hangers, one with fine miniature decoration and what looks like remnants of gilt...

A non-matching pair of really large and impressive silver 'Temple' rings of the spiral type, Viking age, Viking settlers of Scandinavia, Kingdom of the Rus or Kievan Rus, present day Ukraine, c. 800-1000 AD.

Beautiful and still wearable rings in fine solid silver. One is round and the spiral inside and the other with the spiral below. This rings were worn from a headband around the temples, hence the name Temple rings.

Size: 4,2 and 4,6 cm...

A fine Mesopotamian stone cylinder seal 4th.-3th. millenium BC.

The seal in hard black stone engraved with nice looking animals with two heads.

Size: 19 mm. tall and 12 mm thick.

Condition: Choice VF!

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection...

Interesting and very attractive cylinder seal of an unusually large size, even for the Assyrian cylinders, c. 16th-12th. century BC.

The seal made of sandstone or ceramics and finely carved in deep relief. The motif is a large horned animal walking, above the symbols of the sun and moon god, the Tree of Life before.

Size: 39 mm. tall and 15 mm. thick...

An interesting a rare cylinder seal in bronze, Eastern Mesopotamia / Greater Persia, c. 2nd. mill. BC.

A very attractive cylinder carved with animals walking on a decorated border below.

Size: 35-36 mm. tall and c. 8 mm. thick...

A very interesting and uncleaned metal seal in bronze or a silver alloy, Mesopotamia, Uruk-Jemdet Nasr period, 4th.-3rd. mill. BC.

Finely engraved with dots in a symethric pattern.

Size: 19-20 mm. tall and 9 mm...

An attractive and interesting cylinder seal of white stone, Anatolian, c. early 2nd. mill. BC.

The seal finely carved with a hunting scene; Humanoid figure standing with spear and bow before a wild animal.

Size: 26 mm. tall. and 11 mm. wide.

Condition: Choice VF, small chip at the top.

This seal was aquired 2007 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer ...

A really nice set of Danish Neolithic weapons, incl. a huge lancet dagger and a pophyre battle-axe, mid-late 3rd. mill. BC.

Both pieces are housed together in a costum oak box with beige skin inside.

The dagger really large and and of the finest parallel knapping of the period. Unfortunately, an almost invisible hairline repair and small loss to the tip - 25,3 cm. long!

The battle axe made in a fine pophyre stone with nice inclusions. The axe intact with minor ...

A very interesting and rare Egyptian bronze bust with a Pharao raising left arm holding something, c. 2nd.-1st. mill. BC.

Size: 11,6 cm. tall incl. the costum wooden base, c. 6,4 cm. alone.

Condition: Fragmentary as seen in the pictures.

Ex. Private Estate Collection.

Interesting cylinder seal in black stone, Anatolia, Hittite Empire c. early-mid 2nd. millenium BC.

A fine carving of different animals in a charming later Anatolian style.

Size: 25 mm. tall and 14 mm. wide.

Condition: Nice Very fine, intact with ancient wear and patina.

This seal was aquired 1990. It comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his mass...

A draped youth strides to the left and holds a sprouting tendril. His hidden left hand rests on the hip and creates a radiating sequence of suspended folds.
For a related motif, cf. Beazley database no. 9031314.
Much preliminary sketch. The delicate inside drawing rendered with a bristle brush or a hair, dipped in thick paint. The ground line with a band of ovolos.
Two bands of strokes on the reserved shoulder. The side of the foot plate grooved.
Ceramic
Athens...

Amber colored glass jug with flared rim folded over on the sides and tooled into a trefoil shape.
The cylindrical neck widening towards the bulbous body with round bottom.
The rod handle applied as a pad to the edge of shoulder, drawn up and slightly outwards, then turned down and in, and trailed onto back of rim.
Translucent amber glass, handle slightly darker.
Glass, blown
Roman, 2nd-3rd century AD
H. 10 cm
Intact and fine. Pinprick bubbles and...

Lovely hemispheric stamp seal with Capride, black stone, Anatolia, c. 4th. mill. BC.

Fine deep relief and quite attractive!

Size: 25 mm. in diameter and 12 mm. tall.

Condition: Good VF.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reputable dealers and fr...

A finely engraved larger stone stamp seal of the hemispheric seal, popular in the Uruk period. The seal in engraved with a pattern that could look like an insect or the head of an insect. Very elaborate.

Size: 26 mm. in diameter and 15 mm. tall.

Condition: Nice VF, small nick and uncleaned deposits, quite attractive.

This seal was aquired 1994 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (192...

A large round stamp seal with a rare depiction engraved in the base, Mesopotamian 4th.-3rd. mill. BC.

The seal is engraved with a Capride springing in the forrest as if in flight, struck and pierced through by two spears. The seal is carved in stone with a small handle.

Size: 28 mm. in diameter.

Condition: Nice VF, some tiny chips and deposits, but quite attractive.

This seal was aquired 2008 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from bel...

Attractive larger stamp seal of a particularly fine-corned blackish stone with lighter inclusions, North Mesopotamian, 4th.-3rd. mill. BC.

It's beautiful shape is almost like a turtles shell and is highly polished and glossy. The base is engraved with an archaic style motif of two insect-like monsters fighting. Probably later Uruk period work.

Size: 27 mm. long, 25 mm. wide and 12 mm. tall.

Condition: Extremely fine.

This seal was aquired 1995 and com...

A large and unusual bifacial stamp seal, Ubaid-Uruk period, Late 5th.-4th. mill. BC.

The seal is round and relatively flat with central piercing and engraved with a symethrical Cruciform pattern on one side and a horned animal on the other side.

Size: c.30 mm. in diameter and 8 mm tall.

Condition: Nice VF, some wear and deposits, but quite attractive.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection...

Attractive thick cylinder seal in brownish black stone, Mesopotamia, 4th. mill. BC.

Finely carved with raised details with a cruciform / millsail pattern within a dotted border.

Size: 18 mm. wide and 20 mm.

Condition: Nice VF, some even wear.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collecti...

A choice and large tanged bronze lance, Ancient Near East, mid 2nd. mill. BC BC. 'Luristan' Turkmenistan / Uzbekistan bronze age.

A very impressive and decorative bronze lance with a long, bent tang, massive socket and a broad, leaf-shaped blade with highly profiled midrib.

A beautiful lance that would have been highly efficient on combat.

Size: c. 35,5 cm. long.

Condition: Choice. Beautiful green bronze patina. Some roughness to the edge.

E...

A beautiful stone stamp seal, carved in black serpentine with a high handle, East Anatolia/West Mesopotamia, Neo-Hittite States, late 2nd. mill. BC - early 1st. millenium BC.

Round seal plate, engraved with a 4-legged and winged animal, finely engraved knob handle with piercing!

Diameter: 18 x 13 mm.

Condition: Near Extremely fine, with fine patina.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection bet...

A beautiful stone stamp seal, carved in black serpentine with a high handle, East Anatolia/West Mesopotamia, Neo-Hittite States, late 2nd. mill. BC - early 1st. millenium BC.

Triangular seal plate, engraved with a 4-legged and winged animal, finely made knob handle with piercing!

Diameter: 22 x 23 mm.

Condition: Nice very fine, some smooth wear but intact with fine patina.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive an...

Interesting tall stamp seal with a bell-shaped body and large loop, probably ancient Armenian area, Lake Van, 2nd. mill. BC.

The seal engraved with a grit or net pattern in the base and is quite attractive in hand.

Size: 31 mm. tall and 14 mm. wide.

Condition: Good very fine, lovely patina.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reputable dealers and from old ...

Interesting and attractive amulet carved and polished in green black stone, very glossy, Mesopotamia Uruk-Jemdet Nasr period, 4th.-3rd. mill. BC.

The amulet drilled at the top as the eyes of the bird, which is standing on a low oval base.

Size: 19-20 mm. tall.

Condition: Choice VF and intact.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reputable dealers and from ol...

Nice lot of unresearched scaraboid stone seals, Mid-Assyrian period or later 2nd. mill. BC.

Mainly carved with animals. The lot includes seals with wear or minor chips.

Size: c. 16-21 mm. long.

Comes with original ID-cards from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reputable dealers and from old collections. Gustav Oberländer specialized i...

An far eastern Anatolian stamp seal of a particularly attractive mottled and veined grey-black stone, Middle Assyrian period, 2nd. millenium BC.

The seal carved with Assyrians emblem / standards.

Size: 18 mm. wide. and 13 mm. tall.

Condition: Choice very fine, intact with some light wear.

Comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and impo...

Finely preserved scaraboid stamp seal, inspired by Egyptian scarabs, Middle-Assyrian Empire, 15th.-11th. cent. BC.

The scarab of a bifacial style where the upperside is engraved with a vivid Sun motif and the base engraved with two animals.

Size: 19 mm. long and 16 mm. wide and 7 mm. thick.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection. Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his ma...

Interesting large amuletic seal in marble, probably crusader period, 11th.-13th. cent.

The seal was found in Eastern Anatolia / Western Mesopotamia - old crusader land. It was described in the large collection as a 'mystery seal', due to it's strange form and depiction on the seals base.

Finely carved in white marble with uncleaned parts of brown enbedded sand. The amulet in itself had the shape of a veiled Virgin Mary. The engraving on the base looks like knight, wearing ...

A lovely rectangular stamp seal with a stylized bird handle, North-West Mesopotamia, 2nd. mill. BC.

The base particularly well-engraved for the stone type and period, with two animals in flight.

Size: 22 mm. long and 16 mm. wide and 17 mm. tall.

Condition: Extremely fine, nice patina.

This seal was aquired 1995 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer ...

A very interesting large stamp seal with a knob handle, Western Mesopotamian, 1st. mill. BC.

Finely worked and polished seal in a glossy dark stone. The base in engraved with a detailed depiction of a horned animal, crescent above.

Size: 27 mm. tall and 24 mm. wide.

Condition: Very fine, with a surface flake/chip to one side, othervise intact nice patina from use.

This seal was aquired 2002 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below...

A lovely larger stamp seal in form of a stepped Pyramid, Neo-Hittite Kingdoms of the East Anatolia and West Mesopotamia, 1st. mill. BC.

finely carved and pierced at the top in a light brown stone. The top also engraved. The base engraved with a mythical winged animal.

Size: 21 mm x 21 mm. and 14 mm. tall.

Condition: Near Extremely fine, intact with nice patina.

This seal was aquired 2002 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below c...

An attractive round dark green almost black stone seal of the hemispheric form of the Uruk period, 4th.-3rd. mill. BC.

The seal is finely polished and carved with a stylized motif that looks a like an insect.

Size: 20 mm. diameter and 11 mm. tall.

Condition: Good Very fine, intact with nice even wear and patina from use.

This seal was aquired 2003 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav ...

A rare and very early German wooden figure of Saint John with lamb, Germany, 16th. century.

A finely made figure, with polychrome painted gesso on carved wood. With inlaid glass eyes.

Size: 36,3 cm. tall.

Condition: Choice for type, intact with a few tiny losses to fingertips and wear to the original paint on the figure. The staff probably a later 19th. century addition.

Ex. Old Danish private collection.

A fine large stamp seal of rare low cone-shaped form, Northern Mespopotamian, c. 4th. mill. BC.

The seal shows an animal in a artful stylized style.

Size: 29 mm. in diameter and 15 mm. tall.

Condition: Good Very fine, almost intact, fine and glossy stone.

This seal was aquired as early as 1988 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massiv...

A fine large oval green stone stamp seal of the gable form, popular in Northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia in the Ubaid period, 4th. mill. BC.

The seal shows a stylized image, probably animalistic forms.

Size: 33 mm. wide and 30 mm. tall and 15 mm. thick.

Condition: Nice Very fine, intact with nice even wear and patina from use.

This seal was aquired 1995 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gu...

A fine larger blackstone stamp seal of the gable form, popular in Northern Mesopotamia and Anatolia in the Ubaid period, 4th. mill. BC.

The seal shows a horned animal in a strongly archaic style.

Size: 35 mm. wide and 29 mm. tall.

Condition: Nice Very fine, intact with nice even wear and patina from use.

This seal was aquired 1994 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-...

A scarce large square stamp seal with finely carved handle, Neo-Hittite states of Eastern Anatolia / Western Mesopotamia, c. 1200-800 BC.

The seal square and carved with a large animal and smaller animal above, there's also a symbol or a bird in the corner and all within a frame.

Unusually large and attractive seal.

Size: 24 mm. x 22 mm. in diameter of the base and 15 mm. tall.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-...

A rare and interesting Western Mesopotamian stamp seal, c. 4th. mill. BC

The seal of a gable design that became popular in the 4th. mill. BC. The image is interesting since it shows a Turtle!

Size: 28 mm. wide, 24 mm. tall and 7 mm. thick.

Condition: Very fine, with some wear from extensive use in antiquity, nice patina.

This seal was aquired 1991 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav ...

A rare and interesting Western Mesopotamian stamp seal, Levantine workshop, near Antioch, Achaemenid type, c. 7th.-4th. cent. BC

The seal of a hemispheric design that became popular in the 1st. mill. BC. The image is interesting since it shows a Bull butting left with a bird on it's shoulder, leaf above and unidentiofied object before.

Size: 18 mm. wide, 14 mm. tall.

Condition: Nice Very fine, intact with some wear.

This seal was aquired 1994 and come...

Interesting large stamp, slightly Oval and inspired by Egyptian scarabs, Middle-Assyrian Empire, 15th.-11th. cent. BC.

Very large for the type and engraved with a finely carved winged and horned animal. On the other side was an engraving of Ashur that was deliberately partly erased in antiquity! So the removing of Ashur would have been done by enemies of the Assyrians.

Size: 26 mm. long and 23 mm. wide.

This seal was aquired 1989 and comes with hard impression a...

Wall fragment rendered in sunk hieroglyphs showing a nicely carved vulture over a shallow bowl and the sign for bread. The sequence mentions the goddess Mut and can be completed to the recurring epithet ‘Mut mistress of the sky’ [Mwt nbt pt].
The feet of another bird appear over the vulture.
Mut was an ancient Egyptian sky goddess and great divine mother. During the 18th Dynasty she formed the Theban triad together with the god Amun and her youthful son Khons. The name Mut also...

Large kylix with the sketchily depiction of a woman in the tondo. The lady takes a smell at a flower in front of her face. The style is cursory, the details keenly applied with a brush.
Singular Italic imitation of a Greek cup, executed by a local artist of limited experience.
For a comparable cup from the Peucetian settlement of Ruvo, cf. fig. 6.6 in: Ada Riccardi. The Italic People of Ancient Apulia. Cambridge 2014.
The firing process was stopped too late turning to a warm...

Interesting marble cylinderse, Mespotamia, dating to Middle-Late Assyrian Empire, mid 2nd. to early 1st. mill. BC.

The seal engraved with horned animals and symbols.

Size: 26 mm. tall and 14 mm. wide. Large and attractive in hand.

Condition: About Very fine. Intact but with much overall wear.

This seal was aquired 1993 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), OberlÃ...

An interesting high-relief cylinder seal of bronze, Western Mesopotamia, c. 4th. mill. BC.

A thick cylinder with 5 deep reliefs of animals, very unusual and attractive!

Size: 25 mm. tall and 14 mm. thick.

Condition: Choice Very fine, beautiful multi-coloured patina and intact.

This seal was aquired 1993 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquire...

A scarce and interesting Cylinder-stamp, found around Antiochia, probably, dating around 2nd. mill. BC, though the collectors dated this seal much earlier (see picture of his ID-cards).

The seal carved with a symethric design on the cylinder and with two stamps with animals in either side.

Size: 14 x 12 mm.

Condition: Good Very fine, basically intact.

This seal was aquired 1992 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection. ...

A fine cylinder seal carved in the fine hard Hemaetite stone, Neo-Assyrian, 9th.-7th. cent. BC

The seal is of a fine style, engraved with stylized animals in drill style, incl. a scorpion

Size: 18 mm tall and 8 mm. wide.

Condition: Near Extremely fine, fine miniature carving.

This seal was aquired 1994 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his...

Interesting large round seal with a finely made engraving in the base, East-Anatolian, 3rd.-2nd. mill. BC.

Highly interesting engraving!

Size: 30 mm. in diameter and 13 mm. tall.

Condition: Near Very fine.

This seal was aquired 1991 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at repu...

Interesting stamp seal of a pyramidal shape, enhgraved with a fine bird in the base, Syro-Hittite, c. 1200-800 BC.

Size: 19 mm. tall and 15 mm wide.

Condition: Extremely fine.

This seal was aquired 2002 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reputable dealers and from old collections. ...

An attractive large Phoenician stamp seal of a scaraboid form, dating to c. 800 BC.

The seal carved in a in a nice marble stone and engraved with an interesting image of a god carying a crocodile and a bird or snake in each hand.

Size: 20 mm. long and 16 mm. broad and 11 mm. tall.

Condition: Good Very fine, intact with light wear.

This seal was aquired 1993 and comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenan...

Interesting Anatolian seal from the Old Hittite to later Hittite period of the 2nd. mill. BC.

The seal finely made with a ribbed handle and a triangular base, carved with a great King holding a Lion in it's tail and stabbing it with a sword or spear.

Size: 23 x 20 mm. and 14 mm. tall.

This seal comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection, see pictures.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive...

A finely shaped stamp seal from the Urartu Kingdom of the bell-shaped type but in veined Alabaster, very attractive! Seal is carved with an animal in it's base.

Size: 16 mm. tall. and 9 mm. wide.

Condition: Good Very fine.

This seal comes with hard impression and original ID-card from below collection, see pictures.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Oberländer aquired his massive and important collection between 1985 - 2000s, bought at reput...

A nice large stamp seal carved in green-black stone, West Mesopotamian, 4th.-3th. mill. BC.

An early prototype of the square stamp seal with a tallhandle, later so popular. This seal is engraved with stylized animals in it's base. Interesting´ly, it is also carved with lines and patters on the sides.

Size: 23x 27 mm., 25 mm. tall.

Condition: Very fine, some wear but attractive.

This seal was aquired 2003 and comes with original hard impression and or...

A large and interesting interesting cylinder seal in greyish-black stone, Western Mesopotamia, 4th. millenium BC.

Thre central deities, bulls eyes and a snake!

Size: 27 mm. tall and 15 mm. wide, which gives an impressive large imprint.

Condition: Nice Very fine or better, intact with minor wear. Attractive seal and imprint!

This seal comes with hard impression and ID card from below collection.

Provenance: Gustav Oberländer (1926-2012), Obe...

A lovely extra large stamp seal Bifacial figural type in black steatite or chlorite, c. 4th. millenium BC.

The seal was reportedly found at 'Amúg Ebene' in ancient North-Western Mesopotamia, present day Turkey, close to the ancient city of Antioch.

The seal is disc-shaped and carved with a fierce predator, probably a Lion, on one side and with a Deer standing by a stylized tree and pierced from above with a long spear.

Size: 37 mm. wide and 7 mm. thick - impres...

A choice stamp seal carved in harder black stone, probably serpentine, West Mesopotamian, 4th.-3th. mill. BC.

An early prototype of the square stamp seal with a handle, later so popular. This seal is engraved with stylized animals in it's base.

Size: 25 mm. wide, 24 mm. tall.

Condition: Near Extremely fine, attractive.

This seal was aquired 2003 and comes with original hard impression and original ID-card from below collection.

Provenance: G...

Interesting pottery flute in the shape of a bird. Greek dating to c. 600 BC.

The body is very nicely detailed with naturalistic bird features.

Size: 5,5 cm.

An old collection tag on the base: "No. 000693, v. Hassermann-Jordan Deidesheim."

Condition: A nice fragment with the head missing.

Ex. German Private Collection.

Large Attic pelike of the Kerch style decorated with an Arimasp on horseback fighting off two griffins. The Amazon is riding a prancing horse, turns back and raises her sword-wielding arm above the head.
The woman wears a Phrygian cap and is clad in an oriental costume with trousers. Her defeated companion lays on the ground. The griffins with reserved wings.
Three draped youths on the reverse, the leftmost holding a staff. Their cursory style is reminiscent of the Group G(riffin)....